Michael Messer - Interview from "Blues Matters!" - March 2001 - issue No 4

BM: First tell us a bit about your background, where were you born, where do you live now, upbringing......early memories.....?

Michael: I was born in 1956 in south east England. My earliest musical memories are from when I was two or three years old, listening to Elvis Presley, Bill Haley and the Ballad of Davey Crocket on my parents’ wind-up gramophone. I was brought up in Kent and North London and now live in Buckinghamshire near Slough.

BM: Were your family musical at all and if not where did you draw your inspiration from?

Michael: My family are a pretty musical and creative bunch. My Mother plays the piano and was the person who brought the guitar into my life. In 1965 she bought a guitar and started having lessons. She never did learn to play but my brother, David, and I both did. David is now the promoter at Dingwalls in London. My other brother, Alan, plays drums, he now lives and works as a music photographer/designer in Nashville. He has over a thousand album packages to his credit, including Stevie Ray Vaughan’s album “In Step”, the one with Stevie holding the National guitar on the front cover.

We used to have a band together in the early seventies, playing Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Deep Purple, Mountain, Ten Years After, all that kind of stuff…we loved heavy guitar riffs! We also were very into playing rock’n’roll: Elvis, Jerry Lee, Little Richard. I played bass guitar at that time but for the rock’n’roll I used to borrow an upright acoustic double bass. Seeing the Elvis Presley come-back concert on the TV in the late sixties was a defining moment in my life.

BM: When did you first become interested in music and when did that turn to the Blues (if that wasn't the first thing that bit you)?

Michael: I have always been interested in music, from a very young age I was listening to rock’n’roll. I started buying records in the early sixties, The Rolling Stones ‘Not Fade Away’ was probably my first record, the B side was ‘Little By Little’. There were a lot of blues in that early Stones repertoire: The Spider & the Fly, I Can’t Be Satisfied, Little Red Rooster and so on. When I was eight, nine, ten years old I used to go with my family to see all the pop shows at our local venue, The Winter Gardens. In 1965 I saw John Hammond on one of these shows, I didn’t know about blues but I did love his music, still do. Then in my teens I used to go to every Rory Gallagher show in the London area, he was always talking about these old blues guys, Blind Boy Fuller, Muddy Waters and Leadbelly. In my late teens I got to know some people who were around ten or twelve years older than me, they used to play blues records all the time and hearing their record collection was a revelation for me. They used to play Elmore James, Robert Johnson, Slim Harpo, Bo Diddley, Blind Willie McTell, Son House, John Lee Hooker, Howlin’ Wolf, Bukka White etc. They also had a copy of Paul Oliver’s wonderful book, The Story of the Blues. That was where I started to see National steel guitars and associating them with pre-war blues. I was also listening a lot to Rod Stewart, JJ Cale, Bob Marley and Creedence Clearwater Revival, all these artist were drawing on influences from older blues, country, gospel and swing music. Rod Stewart’s early albums played a big part in my getting interested in slide guitar, Dobro, mandolin and banjo. JJ Cale was so great at making records, I think he really is one of the giants and such a major influence, not just as a writer/performer, but as a producer. John Fogerty is also a very under-rated artist, just go back and listen to some of those Creedence Clearwater Revival albums.

During the seventies I got into just about every kind of music that was around both past and present. I was as heavily into Bootsy Collins and Ian Dury, as I was Elmore James, Muddy Waters & Johnny Winter.

Somewhere in all this and lost in the mists of time I became totally obsessed with the blues and started playing slide guitar. At first I only played electric slide and then sometime at the end of the seventies I bought my first steel guitar, it was a silver Dobro with palm trees sand-blasted on the back.

From then on there was no stopping me! I went to see just about every blues player that came to these shores and bought every blues record and just about every National guitar that I could find. (my National guitar mania is a whole other story). Playing slide guitar and studying the blues totally took over my life for a long time, this was more than an interest or a hobby, this was and still is an obsession and a vocation. Blues records were hard to find back then, I used to go to a collectors shop in Harrow called Discovery Records, it was in the back of a greengrocers store. He sold vintage blues records and 'jazz mags’, ( I only ever bought blues records there!) I also used to frequent Dobell’s in London, that was an amazing shop, nothing but blues and jazz records. I bought a lot of Arhoolie, Folklyric, Yazoo, Chess and Stax records there.

BM: Several people have described you to us as a folk player, which has been a popular misconception by the look of it, can you explain this and put everyone right?

Michael: I am definitely NOT a folkie.... I have played at blues festivals all over Europe, including two appearances at the Colne blues festival in this country. I am included in ‘The Virgin Encyclopedia of The Blues’ by Colin Larkin, and back in 1991 was awarded ‘UK Acoustic Blues Artist of the Year’ by the British Blues Connection. I have appeared on shows with numerous blues artists from both the UK and the States.

This is a very interesting point that you have picked up on here, the media can very easily get the wrong idea. I guess this comes from the fact that I have been written about in ‘Folk Roots’ magazine and appeared at the Cambridge Folk Festival and WOMAD world music Festivals. The people that run this area of music are not really folkies, these are people who are into what they like to call ‘roots’ music, which these days covers all sorts of stuff. For some examples of each…….’Folk Roots’ magazine reviews many blues albums every month and has featured just about every big name on the scene. Buddy Guy, Junior Wells, Gatemouth Brown and Corey Harris, to name a few, have all played at WOMAD world music festivals, and the Cambridge Folk festival always has a large blues presence. The first time I played there in 1988 I met John Hammond. Playing acoustic blues, which I have done a lot of over the years, has a different circuit and is as accepted by the acoustic/roots/folk/whatever-you-wanna-call-it audience as the blues audience. Don’t forget that many of the great British folk guitarists including Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Davey Graham and Martin Carthy, were turned on to finger-picking styles by the music of Brownie McGee, Big Bill Broonzy, Skip James and Reverend Gary Davis. It was the folk clubs in the late fifties and early to mid sixties who booked the solo blues artists when they toured the UK…. Mississippi Fred McDowell, Son House, Big Joe Williams, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGee, Big Bill Broonzy, Skip James, they all played in folk clubs on those early tours. Ian Anderson, the editor of ‘Folk Roots’ magazine, along with Mike Cooper and Dave & Jo Anne Kelly, was one of the leading lights in the acoustic blues boom of the mid-to-late-sixties. There’s a big connection there between the folk scene and the blues scene. After all, blues is folk music from the southern states of America and as Big Bill Broonzy famously commented, "All songs is folk songs - I ain't never heard no horse sing 'em".

BM: Tell our readers about your musical journey through life with good/bad - high/low points.....

Michael: Well, I met Mike Cooper in the early eighties and it was through working and recording with him that I finally turned professional. The first album I played slide guitar on and began to get noticed by the media was an Ian Anderson & Mike Cooper record called ‘The Continuous Preaching Blues’ in 1984.

Another very important factor in my musical journey was discovering music from other cultures. In the early eighties I got very into African music, stuff like King Sunny Adé, Franco, and Ali Farka Towre. I started to realize how much American music had been influenced by African music. I could hear the melodies from Mali in John Lee Hooker’s music, and the Nigerian juju influence on Bo Diddley and the fife & drum music of the Deep South. So for a while I became pretty crazy about African music. I became friends with the great guitarist and singer, the late S.E.Rogie, from Sierra Leone, he was known as ‘The King of Palm Wine Guitar’. I produced some album tracks for him in 1989.

Also in that year I became involved working with the legendary Ted Hawkins, the busker from Venice Beach. We made a record together which I produced called ‘Nowhere To Run’, which is due for re-release on Catfish Records in September of this year (2001).

Back in the early eighties in my quest for finding slide guitar music I started to discover Hawaiian steel guitar music. This had been a massive influence on the music of mainland America, the blues musicians adopted this guitar style and that’s where bottleneck slide guitar, country pedal-steel and Dobro comes from. Casey Bill Weldon, Charley Patton, Tampa Red, Kokomo Arnold, Jimmie Rodgers, Chuck Berry, Hank Williams, they were all heavily influenced by Hawaiian steel guitar.

Another musical discovery that happened quite by accident in the mid eighties was finding Indian slide guitar music, both in the classical form and the way it is used in film scores. In fact it was in my quest for finding the perfect curry on one of my many visits to Southall in London that I discovered the ABC music shop

and started buying Indian slide guitar music. Brij Brushan Kabra is one of the leading names in this area. If you enjoy Ry Cooder’s soundtrack to the ‘Paris Texas’ movie, all that solo slide guitar stuff in open ‘D’ tuning you should check out Brij Kabra’s music. Blues slide guitar players will really dig this guy.

BM: How about other musicians you have worked with, recorded with or simply would like to play with......what attracted you to them?

Michael: In 1983 I was playing in a band in Bracknell and after the show I was introduced to Ed Genis, Ed was not playing professionally but had all the capabilities of doing so. We started meeting up and playing music together regularly, not gigs, this was just round at each others’ houses. In 1987 I was desperate to make a record of my own so I recruited a local bass player, Andy Crowdy, and we started rehearsing and doing bar gigs together as a trio. Andy and Ed are still a major part of my music, we’ve been playing together on and off for nearly fifteen years. Ed and I have toured and played together constantly since those early days. After that amount of time it becomes like telepathy, we can play anything and everything together and never lose each other. It is a very special thing to have that kind of musical relationship with somebody. We still meet up once a week and sit round and play for a few hours. Andy Crowdy has pursued other areas of music and has a fine reputation as one of Britain’s top bass players, he still records and tours with us when he can. My drummer, Simon Price, has been with me since 1991, he is also a very creative force within the band and works very well with Andy. My backing singer, Sharon Vanbinsbergen, originally from Detroit, has been with me since 1996. Sharon is a professionally trained gospel singer and back in the late seventies / early eighties she toured America extensively with many of the major gospel groups & choirs. Sharon has a beautiful voice and on many of the tracks is an integral part of the music.

The other major ingredients in my music are the original songs written and co-written by Terry Clarke. Terry is quite simply one of the greatest song-writers around, he has the unique skill of being able to write a song for me from my point of view. I guess many years of friendship have created this situation. Just listen to Crow Blues, King Guitar, Robert Johnson’s Wake, Living In Rhythm or Moonbeat on the album and you will know what I am talking about.

The other musicians on the album, all brought their own unique talents to the melting pot: Jesse ’Guitar’ Taylor, legendary guitarist from Lubbock, Texas, played some killer lead guitar on Worried Life and Cannonball Blues. Doug Cox, Mike Lent, Ron Casat and Phil Wipper, all from Canada, brought a great feel to Driving Wheel Blues parts 1 & 2 and Diving Duck Blues, on the album.

BM: Run our readers through your previous albums and their high and low points.....

Michael: I have released five albums since 1988: Diving Duck-1988, Slidedance-1990, Rhythm Oil-1993, Moonbeat-1995, National Avenue-1997.

All except Moonbeat are un-available, they occasionally turn up on the Internet or on second-hand lists. Due to a breakdown in communications with the various labels involved in my past albums, I no longer support or promote them in any way. I am however, very proud of the music on all of them.

BM: Let's get into the new album with Catfish "King Guitar". Firstly how did you come to sign for a label that have been putting out very creditable re-issues and to become their first British signing?

Michael: I became involved with Catfish records when leading blues record collector, Paul Swinton, who often works with the label, asked me to help him compile the two Catfish slide guitar compilations, ‘Classic Slide Guitar Blues' (volumes 1 and 2). Paul introduced me to the Catfish guys and they became very interested in my music and my career. We have very similar tastes and enjoy the way each other works. I believe that Catfish Records will go from strength to strength and be looked upon as one of the great record labels of this decade.

BM: Do you regard this album as something of a 'crossroads' for your career?

Michael: I certainly do. All my previous albums that came out on independent labels did not have proper distribution, therefore they were only exposed to a very limited number of people. Over the years I have always had an excellent response to my music from specialist journalists and radio shows, but if the album is not readily available in record stores people can't get hold of it.

Catfish are releasing this album worldwide and putting a lot of effort into promoting it, especially in the States, which is new territory for me. I have been through some very hard times in the past ten years trying to hold all this together, so I am very happy with my relationship with Catfish.

BM: How did the sessions go? Where was the album recorded? Who produced and why him/her - what do you think they and the studio contributed to the record?

Michael: The tracks all come from various sessions over the past 10 or so years. A handful of these tracks did appear on those albums listed above which were recorded in various studios on my travels through those years. Others were tracks that I had recorded but was never able to get released, either because others felt they did not fit the market-place at the time, or because record company deals collapsed around me. Every musician, studio, recording engineer and co-producer contributed to the music on this record.

BM: How many guitars do you have at the moment? Which is your favourite?...and is there a particular guitar you've always had a hankering for?

Michael: I have many guitars and outside of playing music I seem to have gained a reputation as something of an authority on National guitars. I have collected, played and studied them for many years and I am really proud to be the guy people regard as being knowledgeable on the subject of these beautiful instruments. I write reviews of National & other Resophonic guitars for the British magazine, Guitarist, and I have been involved in many projects surrounding this subject. Last year I went to North America to appraise, photograph and catalogue the world’s leading collection of National guitars and amplifiers. Two years ago I was an adviser on the auction of the Eric Clapton collection at Christie’s. My National guitars have appeared in many books over the years. Every National guitar manufactured in LA is fitted with ‘Michael Messer National Guitar Strings’ made in the UK by Newtone Strings. These are pretty well the leading brand of strings for National guitars and are sold all over the world in specialist guitar stores. If people are interested in these strings they should check out my website for more information. I am constantly being contacted via the Internet on the subject of National guitars. In some circles I am better known for my research and knowledge of this subject than for my music.

Currently I am playing mostly hand-built instruments, after many years of playing only vintage guitars this is certainly a new and very enjoyable direction for me. I currently use Fine Resophonic® National type guitars made by Mike Lewis in Paris, he is the finest builder of National style guitars in the world. Eric Clapton plays one of Mike’s guitars. I also play Dave King Acoustics®, hand-built acoustic and electric guitars. Dave is one of the UK’s new generation of great guitar makers, his instruments are also used by blues singer, Eric Bibb.

BM: When will you be going 'on the road' to promote the album and what can people expect to see in the shape of a band behind you?

Michael: We are currently working on that, I will be touring over here, in Europe and in the States right through the year. Most of the shows will feature the band which consists of Ed Genis - guitar, Andy Crowdy - bass, and Simon Price - drums. We will be playing a set mainly of material from the King Guitar album, but there is bound to be some new stuff appear along the way, that is the nature of the beast! I am also doing some acoustic shows with Ed Genis. We have built a very good reputation on the acoustic scene and will continue to play those venues and festivals.

BM: Tell us what instruments you used in the studio for the album and what will you be taking on tour - (including any amplification)?

Michael: I tour with Fine Resophonic® and Dave King® guitars. My electric is a Dave King special…….I guess we could brand it the
King Guitar! It is a flame maple & mahogany semi-acoustic Telecaster fitted with the pick-up system from a 1950 National Supro lap-steel guitar. I use a couple of amps with this guitar, depending on what sound I want, they are both early 1950’s National amps. Generally I use no effects at all, these amps don’t even have tone controls, it is just such a pure tone with that kind of amp. I am not against using effects, I have a Zoom multi-effects box of tricks that I use.

BM: This must be a really exciting time for you can you describe some of the joys and tensions of being a 'new' star after your years in the business?

Michael: It has been said before, but an overnight success usually takes 15 years! There are no tensions, only joys. I have worked very hard on my music for many years, I have taken many knocks and often came close to packing it in as a profession. I have been lead astray by so-called record companies and I believe that at 45 years old I can now spot the pit-falls and be much more focused about what I am trying to achieve.

I am very happy that times have changed and people now are more broad minded about music. Songs that I recorded ten years ago which at the time were considered a bit too left of centre, are now being accepted and enjoyed by a whole new generation of blues fans. I am very happy with my situation at present.

BM: Who do you have regard for in the British scene at present, in the past and who do you see as rising stars?

Michael: I have not been heavily involved in the British blues scene for a long time and over the years I have played more overseas than I have here. I am still of the opinion that Eric Clapton is greatest British blues artist, Muddy Waters referred to him as his adopted son, which is good enough for me. Eric has cut some amazing records and influenced generations of aspiring guitarists and writers. It was Eric Clapton who introduced us to Bob Marley’s music when he cut I Shot The Sheriff, and to JJ Cale’s music with his version of After Midnight. This man might seem somewhat ‘establishment’ and M.O.R these days, but don’t be fooled, Eric Clapton is a master of the blues. Rory Gallagher was an incredible talent, a giant, it was Rory who I first saw playing a National guitar when he was with Taste, he was a big influence on my playing back in the seventies. The Rolling Stones have and still do play great blues, I have a bootleg tape of them playing at Legends with Buddy Guy & Junior Wells, it’s very cool. I love the Rolling Stones, they are also a major influence on my music, especially their earlier recordings. The Stones had a lot to do with popularizing the blues, they introduced me to Robert Johnson, Chuck Berry, Jimmy Reed, Reverend Robert Wilkins, Bo Diddley……the list goes on… The Stones also did a lot for promoting country music, but that’s a whole other area….Gram Parsons, Emmy Lou…etc.

In terms of what's happening right now blues-wise in the UK, there's a wonderful singer & guitarist named John Crampton who's doing some great work that hasn't been exposed yet. John plays some heavy blues with a kind of Tom Waits / John Hammond vibe, very cool. There's also a young guy down in Bristol, Peter Webber, he is in his early twenties and is a very creative blues guitarist and writer. There's undoubtedly some extremely talented people all around the UK, but for me at the moment these two are cookin'. On the more traditional side I really like Michael Roach's playing. I know he's American but he is based in the UK and very much plays an active part of the scene. I am going to be teaching slide guitar at his Blues Week event in August at Exeter University, ( have a look at my website for details).

BM: Tell us about your thoughts on blues today, where it's at, where it's going and how do we take it to a new younger audience?

Michael: I don't believe that the blues as a pure form can never reach and inspire young audiences the way it did back in the sixties, too much has changed in the world for that to happen. However I was pretty impressed to see the success That Moby had last year with a blues sound and feel to his hit album. I feel that’s the only way to reach out to a younger audience these days, it has to be woven into the modern way of making music. Actually that was the same in the sixties with the Rolling Stones & Canned Heat etc. They were playing blues but with a contemporary teenage feel. I don’t think at sixteen I would have turned on to Reverend Robert Wilkins or Henry Thomas, but Canned Heat doing it their way….Wow! I believe it is the same now.

When it comes to talking about what’s happening with the blues at this time, I guess a lot of my interests lie with guys like The North Mississippi Allstars, R L Burnside, mixing blues with rap & hip hop sounds, Skip “Little Axe” McDonald, with his ground-breaking album, “The Wolf That House Built”, three or four years ago. With a slightly different feel and style I really like Cassandra Wilson’s slant on blues melodies, arrangements and lyrics. In the acoustic world I like what Kelly Jo Phelps is doing. Back in ’96 I was very interested in what G Love & The Special Sauce were doing, their first single ‘Blues Music’ was a great blend of modern & traditional. Even the packaging of that was cool, it was designed like an old Okeh 78rpm record and presented to a predominantly young audience. I haven’t heard his music for a couple of years. Morcheeba have a bluesy vibe to their music, I don’t have their records but I like what I hear and I can see why so many young kids are into their sound.

Really that’s what my music is about, taking the traditional forms and mixing them with contemporary styles. It is not a contrived thing, it is the way I have always felt about making music. I have always been more interested in making original music than following generic styles and trends.

BM: Thank you for talking to us, do you have a message for wanna-be's out there?

Michael: Yes I do. If you have a vision of how your music should sound, which may be totally out-of-step with current trends………….stick with it. I have waited for over ten years to be recognized for what I do. My other piece of advice is “Watch out, you are swimming in shark-infested waters!”.

Thank you for this interview….Michael Messer.

By Alan Pearce for "Blues Matters!"

email blues.matters@dtn.ntl.com
Website www.bluesmatters.co.uk

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